At 2005-12-04 14:48 +0000, Fraser Goffin wrote:
>In reading over a variety of articles I did come across a comment (I 
>think it was from Rick) that ISO ratification does not allow for the 
>creation of a reference implementation. It wasn't clear whether this 
>meany 'disallow' or doesn't encourage. Can you clear that up ?

I believe Mike has it right, though I cannot cite chapter and verse 
... it is not the objective of the standards committee to produce 
actual running code.  Interestingly the level of semantic description 
for ISO/IEC 19757-2 RELAX-NG is sufficient that merely "connecting 
the dots" (for those who are able to code it) leads to a conforming 
implementation.

Anyone can create implementations, but it is not our role to either 
endorse them or "certify" them.  That would very likely be the role 
of a company whose business is testing who could come up with (or use 
established) testing criteria and metrics with which to establish the 
level of conformance as a service.

>This surprised me somewhat given, in my experience, the ability to 
>put something tangible on the table that projects can pick up an use 
>is a strong motivator for encouraging adoption. I realise that it 
>may not necessarily be within the remit of ISO as to whether 
>specific standards get used or not, but for those (like yourself) 
>who clearly labour long and hard to push them over the line, I would 
>assume that this affords some satisfaction.

The act of producing an implementation isn't in our area, and yes it 
is very satisfying to see standards be successful in implementations.

What is particularly satisfying about ISO/IEC 19757-3 Schematron is 
that it was conceived and implemented in XSLT for a proof of concept, 
yet implementations in other languages such as Uche's in Python 
validates the implementability of the standard.  One can no longer 
feel constrained to use an XSLT-based implementation (a comment I've 
heard) now that Uche's got one in another language.

>Within the organisation that I work for, those who work in 
>Enterprise Architecture are forever pressed by project managers who 
>demand more than just 'paper theory' (rightly so in my book - 
>software is a practical profession) and without something 'real' 
>will very often take a path of least resistance approach to delivery 
>sometimes with the consequence of a much less optimal design 
>sustainablility (i.e. JFDI, 'quick and dirty', I'm sure you have 
>your own accronyms).

Indeed ... though a reference implementation in a given language 
might not be sufficient to establish implementability in other 
languages, and constraints may limit ones flexibility such that the 
reference implementation cannot be used.  So, in and of itself, the 
existence of a reference orientation while useful may not satisfy the 
business requirement.

But ... having said all that ... I don't see anything in the ISO/IEC 
directives that would *prohibit* an informative annex to a standard 
that might illustrate an implementation.  For the reasons above I 
would never consider it normative, so it couldn't be endorsed as 
"reference implementation", but it would be useful to users of the 
standard as an illustrative adjunct.

I welcome discussion on ISO/IEC issues related to markup and have 
appreciated this discussion, Fraser.  My duties in my role are to 
make our committee as transparent and accessible as possible, and I 
invite comments or suggestions regarding how this committee on 
Document Description and Processing Languages can keep the user 
community informed.

. . . . . . . . Ken

--
G. Ken Holman                    Crane Softwrights Ltd.
ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 34 Secretariat  Standards Council of Canada
Committee correspondence:        mailto:jtc1sc34@s...
Committee website:               http://www.jtc1sc34.org



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